Pilot - Coming from Where I’m From
EP. 01: Pilot - Coming from Where I’m From
In the pilot episode of the podcast, show hosts Marjorie Anderson and Carol Martinez sit down in conversation to explore how connection and belonging showed up for them through their lives, how it has shaped their interactions with those closest to them, and how cultural traditions and customs continue to shape their community and the future.
Listen to the full episode:
About the guests:
Marjorie Anderson is a community builder at heart and by profession. Marjorie is the Director of Community for Exos, a leading company in the corporate wellbeing space, and she is the Founder and Principal Strategist of Community by Association, L.L.C., a consultancy helping executives and founders in associations, nonprofits, and social impact organizations think deeply about how to strategically incorporate community into their business while keeping people at the center of those conversations. She has been building community as a profession for 10+ years.
Carol Martinez, is an Afro-Latina hailing from the Bronx, New York. As an entrepreneur, she's dedicated to guiding individuals through educational transitions into real-life scenarios. Her enthusiasm lies in fostering connections between people and linking them to vital local resources, including mental health support, bilingual services, and community-building activities. Carol's professional journey intertwines with her altruistic endeavors; she serves a global organization, facilitating connections for project managers to make a social impact. Carol, gives back to her community through her roles as a board member at the Rochester, New York YMCA, and Association Latino, where she champions the advancement of Latinos within professional spheres and beyond.
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00:02
[Marjorie Anderson] Welcome to our pilot episode of Connecting Across the Diaspora. I can't I can't believe we're finally here. This was a good amount of blood, sweat, and tears endured to get us to where we are today, but we made it. I am one of the co-hosts of the show, Marjorie Anderson, and before I introduce our other co-host, I really just kind of wanted to give a little bit of background on how and why this podcast came to be. So I've been doing community building professionally for 10 plus years now and every conversation that I have centers around business value and strategy and ROI and blah, blah, blah of, you know, what is, what is the company going to get out of bringing people together?
00:43
[Marjorie Anderson] And internally I'm like, “okay, but what are people getting out of this?” Right? Like you're, you're really, really focused on what the company is going to achieve because you are giving the illusion, sometimes not the illusion, but sometimes, yes, giving the illusion that you're caring for people, but what does that what does that mean for them? How is it meeting their needs? And so there also seems to be this story, I see it more in tech, but holistically that community is this new and up and coming profession. And I from a profession, I guess I see that, but as a way of caring it's really been around longer or longer than any of us have been alive and some of us have had to continue relying on the customs and traditions that are baked into our culture that have really created the bedrock of belonging just to navigate society and survive. So I wanted to give voice to those customs and traditions, but also knew that it would be foolish of me to try to do that on my own. So I reached out to my friend and colleague, Carol Martinez, to be my co-host and she said, yes, probably because she was just being nice to me, but I am grateful for it regardless. Anyway, let me introduce you to Carol. Carol, tell the people about yourself.
02:10
[Carol Martinez] Thank you, Marjorie. So yes, I was being nice to her, but also at the same time, I enjoy my relationship with Marjorie because we share the same values and beliefs about what community is and I think through our differences and similarities, we've seen what community truly means to us. So again, my name is Carol Martinez. I'm a passionate individual. I feel. I love food. I love community. And I'm an immigrant and that's a story that I don't talk about often, but I'm also an Afro Latina and there's many facets to who I am and quite a lot of that has been shaped because of community and its multifacetedness. So I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to lend my voice to this opportunity and see who else comes along with us as we really start to branch out into the facet of what community is and the voices that are aligned to some of those stories that we haven't heard.
03:17
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah, and like I think at the end of the day, we just don't hear enough about…I think we hear a lot about customs and traditions holistically, right? But when we start to think about the customs and traditions that are baked into specific groups of people, like the black community or the African diaspora, the Latinx community, the indigenous community, those things kind of get squashed down, right? Lots of times you see that those customs and norms get absorbed into society, renamed something else, and then the history, the rich history as to why it even existed in the first place and how it helped people feel a sense of belonging in a place where it probably was never meant for them to feel that belonging come come to fruition. And so I think it's really important that we continue to just center around those things. And while this isn't specific to the Black, Latinx, or Indigenous community, like this is where our calling is, right? This opens up the conversation for other marginalized groups to possibly have their own conversations around it, butt at the end of the day, like this is where I feel like we have the most influence and we have the most ability to be able to bring those stories out for people who are like us.
04:46
[Carol Martinez] Yeah.
04:50
[Marjorie Anderson] And so it's it's just really, I think it's just really important to just center on some of those things and again, bring those voices to the front of the table because there isn't a forum, there probably is a forum, but there isn't one that I've discovered that centers those voices around those customs and traditions in a way that doesn't make it about anything else but them. And I think that we need to provide that space.
05:18
[Carol Martinez] Yeah.
05:21
[Carol Martinez] Yeah, yeah. And I truly enjoy the call out of the word us and what you said, right? And the intention of this podcast is for us, you, myself, and those that relate to the word “us” and our stories to come forth and to share with us or, but to listen, right? And continue, I guess, in some way sharing or bringing forward those voices and in their perspective areas, whether it's professional or whether it is, you know, within their homes or within their community, because I know for me, as I start to think about what is my awesome, what is my voice within the community space, I often am finding that I'm shying away from really using that facetedness of what I represent, the multifacetedness of me and and how I've some way somehow shunned some of those areas because there was never a comfort right or a space or if not, there's so much marketing around what it means to be Latina, what it means to be Latinx, what it means to, you know, promote Black and whatsoever. But I think in a lot of that we're losing the essence of us.
06:45
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah, I agree with that. And there's a lot of pulling out the pieces that are desirable and elevating that and not pulling out the pieces that are foundational to why we exist, how we exist, how we care for one another. And I think that's a real shame because you can't you can't pick and choose a part of the whole.
07:07
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah and say that you're doing that in service of elevation, you just can't. So um hopefully we'll be able to shed some light, um have some voices come to the table to help kind of center. I keep saying center, but that's the only word that I can think of that adequately describes what we're trying to do here. Like this isn't ah about me, this isn't about you, this is about you know these different diasporas collectively and being able to really kind of lift them up and say, all of the work that you've done and you continue to do to bring people together and help them feel whole and a part of something larger um does not go unnoticed. And even though people are talking about community in such a commoditized way, nowadays we understand that we would not be able to talk about community at all had not these customs and traditions existed.
08:04
[Carol Martinez] Correct, correct, yeah. And as we also evolve, right, your key phrase is center, but to me, I think there's just that evolution, right, of that center. There's also the expansion, right, of what community is and what the diaspora community is or what the Latino/Latinx community is because there are those people that are highly influenced by those communities. There's there's individuals that have aligned themselves with just that passion or understanding for their culture, but also find that maybe their ancestry right was also founded on the similar norms or similar conditions. And now we're telling stories to each other, maybe in a different language or from a different, you know, country or continent, but we're connecting through those similarities. So, you know, I see this podcast as an opportunity as well to really think about how we cross boundaries because of that community similarity, because of that ancestral similarity or that allyship similarity as well. So calling that out.
09:11
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah, for sure, for sure. There's a lot of conversation to be had. We won't cover it all in this particular podcast, but hopefully, we we are able to bring some people to the table with us to share in that conversation um that we can so that we can get there, so.
09:20
[Carol Martinez] Correct..
09:32
[Marjorie Anderson] Well, let's get into it. I couldn't think of a better way to kick off these sorts of conversations than by talking about how we experienced connection and belonging in our lives growing up and how we see that show up for us now. Because I think culturally on both sides, there were some pretty specific things that we experienced that really kind of solidified why belonging to each other holistically was critical to our well-being and critical to how we navigated this world and cared for ourselves and other people. So as we kind of think about that, I think I'd like to just pose this question. And Carol, I'll ask you to start us off. But you know really what stood out in your upbringing that helped you realize the importance of belonging?
10:14
[Carol Martinez] Sure. Yeah, no, really, really great question. And as we started this journey together, again, um agreeing to do this podcast with you, I think I've been doing an introspective reflection about you know, what does belonging mean to me and and why does it matter, right? And have I always paid attention to it? Because again, my introduction, I should have shared that I'm an immigrant from Honduras, right? I moved to the United States when I was nine and a half. Lived in the South Bronx and really just lived in what everybody can relate, or what people would relate to through media, which is the projects. So coming from Honduras, being an immigrant and living in the project, to me, it was just a huge shift of what Hondurian culture was and that you know that essence of community. So growing up in Honduras, I'm from the Garifuna culture. So I always consider myself a Garifuna. And when I moved to the United States, it was like, “OK, there's people that look like me, but they don't think like me,” right? They speak English, I speak Spanish and of course a tribal indigenous language, you know, so there was already a a dissimilarity, right? And oftentimes it was always like, well, why aren't you speaking English? And I'm like, well, I'm learning English, right? And to me, the question in my head was always, well, why are you speaking Spanish or, you know, my Garifuna dialect?
11:55
[Carol Martinez] So as I grew older in America and the United States and the Bronx, that's when I started to realize that, man, I am lost, right? And again, just going through this journey with you, I still feel a little bit lost, right? Because I think my inner intention was to always be Garifuna, but my outer intention was to assimilate to the American mindset, to the American mindset, to the American way of being, because that's how we accept people. That's how we brand people once you come to the United States. So yeah, like still trying to figure it out, but ah passing the question over to you, what are your thoughts around that?
12:42
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah, I think for me the thing that stood out a lot in terms of the importance of belonging, growing up, was, my grandmother was a kindergarten school teacher. She's a teacher's aide, so she wasn't a teacher-teacher, but she was teaching children. And no matter where we moved, we moved around a couple of times until my grandparents finally bought a house. My grandparents raised us. What I noticed was that no matter where we went, she was almost considered like the neighborhood grandmother. And I say that is important because the way that she cared for the people in our neighborhood, especially the children, was unlike anything that even today, I have ever seen. It would be to the point where kids would walk past and they would stop and they would say, “is Ms. Dora home?” And they would be so happy to see her. She could be walking down the street and the kids from the school would just come up to her. It was almost like she was a neighborhood celebrity because she just loved on those children as if they were her very own grandchildren. And I had never seen such love and care. And as I got older, it got me to thinking, this is probably, for some of these children, the only way that they're experiencing love and care and belonging and connecting the importance of the role that she played. When my grandmother passed, I was 17 years old. She was 54 years old. She's very young. When my grandmother passed, I kid you not, the whole neighborhood felt it.
14:29
[Carol Martinez] Hmm. Wow.
14:32
[Marjorie Anderson] People would walk past and just say, “I'm so sorry.” The man who ran the corner store in our neighborhood, like he was affected by it. Everyone loved her because of the care that she put into helping people feel like someone loved them and they belonged to somebody.
14:52
[Carol Martinez] Yeah.
14:53
[Marjorie Anderson] And so seeing how she cared for people and seeing the impact that she made on people was really significant to me because then I thought to myself, “I want to care for people in that same way.” That felt important to me. And, you know, when you're little, you don't understand why that feels important to you until you grow up.
15:16
[Carol Martinez] Of course.
15:18
[Marjorie Anderson] And then you realize, “oh, that is what that is supposed to be.” I never want to be at a point in my life where there are people who don't understand their importance in it, their role that they play in it, and that I 100% will always care for them.
15:29
[Carol Martinez] Yeah, for sure. For sure.
15:35
[Marjorie Anderson] Even if we fall out and we never speak again, I will always wish good things for your life and hope that you are doing well. And she showed me what that looked like. And that is how I conduct myself even to this day, which is why the work that I do in community building, I always am like, “yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that you've got this whole thing around business, I get the business value, but but it how are you caring for people?”
16:01
[Carol Martinez] Yeah, correct.
16:03
[Marjorie Anderson] And the complex looks on people's faces like, “well, I mean, you know, they get a discount to our events”. Like that's not what I mean, not at all what I mean. And so, for me, that's how it really kind of showed up early in my life and continues to show up today. Like I said, it doesn't matter whoever is in my life, like, I want them to experience that someone cares about them. Because even though they've got other people in their life, and like I tell you, I tell everyone else, I know you've got other people in your life who care about you. Please know that I do, right, and so I never want anyone to ever think that someone out there isn't looking out for their well-being.
16:48
[Carol Martinez] Yeah, yeah. And I, true like, thank you for sharing that story because that's such a foundational value to what community is, right? And again, coming from that immigrant lens, like, there's a lot of customs and and relationship building that I've learned because there was a abuelita in my barrio in the Bronx that was exactly like that, right? And maybe by association, you know, she's my abuelita or my grandmother, right, for those that are listening in the Latino community, my grandmother, but at the same time, she was just a community grandmother. She was the barrio or grandmother, right? So that nuance kind of allowed people like you started to feel love, kids to feel love, kids to feel like hey, I can go to, you know, grandma over there and get a candy. And she just naturally becomes grandma. Right. And that's one of the things that I saw. Like, I still have friends that, you know, the grandmother in the neighborhood, she's seen my friends grow up similar to me, have kids, been involved in life through that because that essence of caring, and I, I can't say it enough and maybe I don't say it out loud the marketing and the business aspect of community cannot capture that. Right? And when it's brought up in conversations about, hey, how do we how do we break build community with a brand or how do we build community with you know something that we're giving away for free? And then that aspect of caring comes up, it's like everybody's gonna go kind of like a deer headlights because they're not thinking of that essence of how does the whole person connect to, you know, that exchange. So yeah, we can probably go on and on.
18:37
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah, yeah, there's a lot there. But I think that I think neighborhoods and growing up, especially in under-resourced areas, all you have is each other.
18:51
[Carol Martinez] Yep.
18:53
[Marjorie Anderson] And so really depending on one another and looking out for one another is baked into the fabric of how you survive in those spaces. I remember, I always refer to it as the neighborhood aunties. There was a time when, I remember this time…my sister is going to kill me for telling the story. But I remember this time where we were younger. And of course, like I said, my grandmother was a school teacher. And the people across the street were best friends with my grandparents and we used to call them aunt and uncle, Uncle Ted and Aunt Darlene. And so one day my sister skipped school. And my grandmother had gotten home from work. We were home from school. We were sitting out on the front porch. And I remember seeing my Uncle Ted, he used to always always come across the street. He was either looking for my grandfather. He was going to play some sort of weird prank on my grandmother. He was bringing us food, whatever. But I saw him strolling across the street and he walked up our stairs and he kind of stood there and was talking to my grandmother. And I remember him asking, “did the girls have school today?” And my grandma said, “yeah, they had school today.” And he said, “oh, ok.” He said, “well, I was driving down Parsons,” - which was the name of one of the streets; I grew up in Columbus, Ohio, so anybody who's listening who's from Columbus knows where Parsons Avenue is. He's like, “I'm driving down Parsons, and I see Rita walking down the street.” Ooh, I got out of there. But the point of that story is that the people in the neighborhood looked out for us. So he wasn't coming over to, like, be a snitch, but he was like, hey, she should have been in school, right?
20:48
[Carol Martinez] Yeah.
20:48
[Marjorie Anderson] And so you've got these people in your communities, like I said, especially in under-resourced and underserved communities where we're looking out for each other because we're all we have.
20:59
[Carol Martinez] Correct.
20:59
[Marjorie Anderson] And there would be times where kids would get their get whippens from other people in the neighborhood because they were doing stuff that they weren't supposed to do. And mothers would be like, well, you shouldn't have been doing that and so and so wouldn't have had to give you that reprimand, right? And so I think there's this very special thing that happens in our cultures where those experiences shape us and help us become the people that we are and they're kind of passed down. So, like, that is how I would expect to operate in a neighborhood that I'm in. And if I had kids and so on and so forth, I have friends who have children who are like, you know, “that's your auntie,” even though they're not blood related, but like that's your cousin, right?
21:52
[Carol Martinez] Correct.
21:53
[Marjorie Anderson] Like we create and build these communities and families for ourselves because we're all we have. And I think that there's something incredibly special in that. And then the way that we show up for one another and the way that we navigate life that's markedly different from “the norm” and I think that on some level as we kind of try to sometimes normalize ourselves into society, we let go of those things, which is, to me, dangerous and just sad because that's the fabric of what holds us together in our cultures across whatever diaspora that you belong to. So I just think that remembering those stories and holding those, even though it may not seem major to some people, it's really big to us, just continuing to hold on to that stuff is important.
22:58
[Carol Martinez] It's true. It's very true. And, and it's interesting you bring that up because recently I was asked by one of my neighbors, which I recently met, older lady, super cool from Ukraine, you know, grew up in Ukraine and then ended up in the UK and then eventually ended up in the United States. And we were comparing cultures, right? Like not, not in the yours is better than mine, but more like, you know, when she remembered growing up, and I mean, this lady is 70 plus, I'm 45 years old, right? So there's a bit of that age difference. And she remembers growing up in her country, in her culture, where you can go to like your neighbor's house and knock on the door and and have that, you know, relationship automatically. and I was sharing with her that growing up in the Bronx, like, to me, my building was my entire you know essence of community. I can go from the fourth floor, to the third floor, to the first floor, and be like, “hola doña, como esta? Buenos tardes,” and I thought that you know like there was just this ability to be able to approach someone, approach, you know, someone's door and feel like you're asking somebody who is semi-family to you. Like you said, even not by blood, ask them of something that ask from them, but also ask them, right? And I think as you start to migrate from city culture or body or culture, as we call it, into other areas, other suburbs, like that, that relationship also starts to change. I like, I find it growing up in New York City, being from Honduras, I find that, I don't know, sometimes within these neighborhoods or within these suburbs, there's such a silo, there's such a silence, and there's such a fear created, you know, around connecting with each other, that it does start to dissipate those cultures. Right? Like I listen to African music wherever I go, and to me, that's something that I bring with myself from New York City, right? I grew up with classmates that were from the Middle East, to Africa, Europe, you name it. I grew up in a global environment. So I bring the globe with me wherever I go, but there's also parts of those cultures that I feel like I could relate to because of those relationships, because of the abuelita, because of the great aunt from Lebanon or whoever she was, you know, within that Bronx community.
25:36
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah, I think that's important to point out. I think that it's important to note that it's like our experiences are not monolithic. There's a ton of intersectionality that happens when you are exposed to different cultures. And I think, I think, I don't necessarily want to say by default, but I think that it, for people like you and I, like we are almost, by default, exposed to that intersectionality, right? Like we didn't get the, we didn't grow up in siloed communities, right?
26:17
[Carol Martinez] No.
26:18
[Marjorie Anderson] Like, yeah, it may have been a community or a neighborhood where it was all Black people or all you know Latino people, but when you went to school, it was everyone. Like we, you know, my family didn't have the money to send me to a private school, right? And so, and not saying that there's anything wrong with private schools, so let me just preface that by saying that, but I think that there's something about being in certain environments that exposes you to a world of people by default that conditions you a little bit differently than if you weren't so I think that's important.
26:54
[Marjorie Anderson] I also think that there's a level of trust that is developed as you interact with people, to where it allows for that level of connection and belonging to develop in a much different way. Again, because our experiences are similar, just because of the environments that we grow up in and we have to kind of depend on each other.
27:28
[Carol Martinez] Yeah. and I think that's the big call out too, right? So you started by, you know, using the word us and, you know, referencing that. And then now you, your statement of our experiences are similar. And I, again, something that I pondered continuously, right? And I think our experiences are similar because we truly are connected because we're humans, right? So I think if we lead with that in mind, right, we're connected because we're humans. And then whatever, you know, other modalities or business side, we need to kind of pack on top of that, we're packing it on top of that, right? It's not that like, I'm not the business that I work for. I'm not the business that, you know, creates income for me. I am the human that drives that business. So I am going to be, I'm going to find some way to identify to the human, right? That, that I'm supporting, serving or connecting with. And I think that that's, like you said, by default, we were exposed to those vastness of culture. So in moving forward within our adult life or professional life, we took that with us. right? So to me, I took the New York, Bronx, Hondurian, Garifuna, Latina with me everywhere I go, because I know the world is not made up of only Afro-American, Afro-Latino, Afro people. We are diverse. So how do we take that and continue taking that and not siloing it or not abandoning it because it now becomes something shameful to talk about or something shameful to identify. And again, like I remember having to fill out the census for the first time as an adult and it was like, what are you? How do you define yourself? I'm like, I am Hondurian And there's nowhere that I could ever circle what a Hondurian is. And there's nowhere that I could ever allow for even that identity to come across. So I've had to adapt, right, to the multifacetedness of who I was, but never abandoning the essence of that humanity, right, that connection that I might have with somebody from Sub-Saharan Africa to, you know, Europe to Greece or, you know, or somewhere in Brazil, like I'm connected to all of these people because of that human nature and human need.
29:57
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah, yeah you lead with humanness and everything else will follow.
30:03
[Carol Martinez] Yep. So. So Marjorie, question for you as we keep talking about this culture, so many points that you've hit and what you shared. So in your thoughts though, like why do you think you need community and why do you think it matters to you so much?
30:20
[Marjorie Anderson] What a question. So for those listening, Carol and I have had this conversation multiple times because I love community work. I love bringing people together. I love facilitating connection. I love being able to see people find connection with others where they didn't think they would have some sort of commonality. That said, I always say I make a better dinner host than I do a guest because of that. Like if you invite me to dinner, I will find the dog and the corner and sit and like, I'll be like, “here dog have some of my cheese and crackers. It's so nice to see you today.” But if I am the one who is bringing people together, I get to sit back and just watch the magic happen, which is just really beautiful to see. But in all of that, I have this mindset; I think it just comes from experience where, like, I am better served by helping others versus allowing a community to come and help me. And I know intuitively that community is important. I know because I've experienced it. I want to share a story around when I was growing up. I was in my 20s. I was still living in Columbus at this time. I now live closer to right outside of Philadelphia, but I had this group of friends. And I'm gonna, first of all, I just wanna say that if no one else has ever said it to black women, they are magical and amazing.
32:03
[Carol Martinez] Amen. Yes, yes, yes.
32:04
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah, you know I had this group of friends when I lived in Ohio where we would get together for birthdays, we would get together for celebrations of life, we would get together for the birth of a child. We would get together because it was Monday night and Law and Order was on. We found a way to get together because we just loved being in each other's company. And that was the most beautiful experience that I ever had in my life. And these women were from all walks of life. There was, you know, an older woman in our group. There was you know me and a couple of other ladies who were in our 20s. We all came from different backgrounds, but these Black women were central to helping me feel like I belonged somewhere. And it was beautiful and I chose to move away and I lost it and have yet to find it again. So I know that I need it and I know that it is important and you know there's this whole other side where you know sometimes people are pretty awful right?
33:22
[Carol Martinez] That's so real, that's so real
33:25
[Marjorie Anderson] And that can jade your perception of what belonging and connection and community actually is and how you need it and how it shows up. But I always long for the connection that I had in my 20s. It doesn't have to necessarily be with a specific group of women, but with people. There was something very giving about the way that we came together and the way that we took care of one another. I threw a dinner party one night and bought wine and did not have a corkscrew. And I texted my friend and I'm like, “I can't open the wine. I don't know what to do!” And she brought wine that you twist top. She's like, “don't worry about that. We'll take care of that later.” But we had like a pot, like we would have a potluck at each other's houses. We just took care of one another. Like if someone's child was sick, we would go and take care of that child. And so I know I need community. And I think what's dangerous though is, I don't want to say dangerous, but I don't, I think one of the things that I fall into is thinking that it has to look a certain way because of how magical that experience was.
34:36
[Carol Martinez] Yeah. Very true.
34:39
[Marjorie Anderson] And so what, for me, I'm working on is really thinking about how do I open myself up to community in whatever way it shows up for me and not having, and not putting a prescription on how it's supposed to look.
34:54
[Marjorie Anderson] I think that when you experience something really beautiful and magical like that, you romanticize what future connections and relationships and community looks like for you. And it won't always show up that way. So then how do you, the thing that you have to do then is say, “I recognize that people care for me, and it's not going to look like that. But this is how it does look. And am I grateful for it? Yes.” And so then how do I show up for those people in the same way that they show up for me or or better? Because they deserve that level of feeling like they belong.
35:27
[Carol Martinez] Yeah. Yeah.
35:33
[Marjorie Anderson] So I think it's important. I act like I don't.
35:41
[Carol Martinez] You try to act like you don't, right.
35:42
[Marjorie Anderson] I do. I put on a good mask.
35:44
[Carol Martinez] You tried.
35:44
[Marjorie Anderson] I put on a good mask. But it is important to me. Otherwise, I wouldn't be doing this work. I have another friend, shout out to Shannon Emery.
35:55
[Carol Martinez] Shannon!!
35:56
[Marjorie Anderson] But I, every now and then, we'll send memes back and forth and we'll go, “how..for people who don't like people…how did we end up in community work?” And it's not that we don't like people. It's not that we don't like people, but it's just, you know, sometimes people are awful. But at the end of the day, what is important to us is making sure that people feel cared for and like they belong somewhere and that they feel that someone cares about them.
36:21
[Marjorie Anderson] So yeah, that's my two cents on that. How about you?
36:25
[Carol Martinez] Oh, ah yeah, it's a lot of two cents. I'll take it. I'll take it. I think for me is, as you said, allowing that opportunity, right? And fill in the sentence for those of you that might have a different, you know, filler for that blank space. So for me is allowing that opportunity for migration, right? The changes that come with change. Because that's really it. like We started off talking about you know our neighborhoods when we were younger, our aunties, our uncles, and by extension our association. And then of course, knowing that you know there are some of us that are still living in the places that we were born in and grew up in, but yet some of us have chosen to leave that. Right? And when we leave that, there's kind of a bit of that tug and pull of that migration part, And for me, because I came into America as an immigrant, the migration part was kind of innate in me. So understanding that as I have moved, so I currently live in Rochester, New York, but I've lived in Florida. I've kind of, you know, a couch crashed in Connecticut and other places in New Mexico and, you know, with friends. But to me it was always the essence of, you know, where do I go find my local community center? Or where do I go find my local church? Because there's always that foundational place that you know you're going to meet somebody - coffee shop, for some of us that are working remotely. And I think once you find that foundational place, you start to kind of also start to see those people again, right the connection of those people.
So similar to you, I think I've kind of carried a little bit of heartbreak of the fact that I left New York City, I left the Bronx. But then I also have smiled and rejoiced because I did meet, you know, my local abuelita. I met my local uncle. I met, you know, my local sisters and brothers, but they just look different now. They're adults. They're professional. They have a different sound, but there's still something, you know, beautifully intimate about them. And that's that essence of they don't want to do it alone, right? Nothing in the world that they're encountering, they want to do it alone. For those of us that are introvert/ extrovert, extrovert/introvert, however you want to define yourself, it's a tug and pull between, do I really belong or am I choosing not to belong? Right? Like, again, those questions that you have to really ask yourself because sometimes it's putting those personas and personalities out there that also removes us from community, right, community at large, a larger community next door or whichever one. And I love your dinner party idea, or your dinner party story, because I love food. Food is like my connection to people. You know, you want to get to know somebody, talk to them about their favorite food or just say, hey, you know, meet them at a cafe or something then the food conversation, this opens up huge other, you know, opportunities.
And to me, Asian food, Middle Eastern food, Latino food, amalgamation, kitchen, you know, kitchen food at like 1 a.m. Let's talk about those 1 a.m. plates that we pulled together because that too has become that amalgamation, you know, of what change has looked like. So to me, community is important. Right? And as I grow and as I progress, I don't have children, but I have a dog. My dog belongs to my community now because we meet other dogs, right? So again, there's just this constant change. And I think it's that sense of change where we need each other, where we need to have these callings, where we need to have these conversations to remove that blank space, that blanks stare that I don't care for my neighbor, or I need to go to my apartment and close my door.
40:46
[Carol Martinez] But the question is, are you closing your door because you're an introvert/extrovert, extrovert/introvert? Or is it because you really don't want to belong to something or fighting the pull that you belong to something already and you just need a break? So I think there's a lot in there, but community matters to me because I'm a human. I'm a human that's here now. And I'm a transient human because I don't know where I'm going to be next, but wherever I'm going next, I want to know that I could talk to my fellow people.
41:17
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah, and I think there's something really important that you said in what you were talking about in terms of whether people actually feel like they don't belong or whether they're choosing not belong to community. I think there's something really important in that as we think about how we feel lost sometimes and how we feel like we're not connected to anyone or anything. I think that's an important reflection for us to have. Like, is that feeling because, truly, you haven't found a place or you're choosing to not find a place there because I think that the waters could get muddied really quickly you can have a disillusioned…not disillusioned… you can have a really terrible experience with a person, right? And that could cause some sort of trauma on whatever level. And you have made the decision then that you will not connect to people in that way anymore, which then disconnects you from their humanity, right? From the next person's humanity, from whatever. And so you've made the conscious choice not to connect in that way, which then leaves a hole because you long to. Right? But it's not because you don't want to. It's because something else informed that decision.
But I think that, and this is a whole other conversation for another day, but I think people need to introspectively realize, like, okay, when is it okay to kind of break myself open a little bit more to invite that into my life again? But I just think that, for those listening, I think that's a pretty important distinction to really think about what's really fueling that not belonging. Like, is that a choice or is that truly because that's just not where your people are, right?
43:22
[Carol Martinez] Yep, correct. and even with that statement, right? And I've heard that statement quite a lot. And perhaps again, I always relate it to the fact that I grew up in one of the biggest and loudest cities, you know, in the world, New York City, right? There's nowhere you can go in New York City where it's that loud or busy or transient. And, you know, the sense of choosing to belong or feeling like you don't belong, it truly is a choice. Because even if you don't find your kin or the people that you were birthed with or grew up with, you still find people. And it's that natural curiosity. You know, I get blamed all the time for asking 80 million questions because I have a natural curiosity. But it's also that natural curiosity that's allowed me to have that superpower of saying, “hey, guess what, you just said something that I know about,” or “you just mentioned the restaurant that I've been to, oh my God!” right? And then that joy just starts to flow naturally. So I think it is that introspective question that we all who seek community or work in community need to ask ourselves, right? What choices are we making and how are we showing up within those areas of those environments and those choices? Because it is easy to alienate yourself because of some feeling and confusing that feeling with the actual fact.
44:53
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah, yeah, that feeling might be informed by perceptions that aren't quite real. And so we make decisions off of those regardless, but it's worth the introspection.
45:05
[Marjorie Anderson] So as we think about what the future of belonging and connection looks like, right? The Surgeon General put out a report last year, year before, that like loneliness in the United States is an epidemic and it's serious. And one of the things that he outlines in his report, and I'm not going to get this completely right, but one of the things that he outlined in his report was that the way to close that gap is through community and connection. And so when we think about what that means for our future, I am really wondering what both excites you and/or concerns you about not only how we think about connection and belonging in the future, but the traditions and the customs from, you know, the rich cultures that exist in this world that shaped our community experiences growing up, what concerns or excites you about the future of those things?
46:11
[Carol Martinez] Yeah, I think to me what when I think about just the loneliness, it's interesting you bring that up because I was reading several articles about the number, you know, of people just really choosing to take medication, anxiety drugs, and hiding, you know, at home because of, you know, different reactions to the world. And I often coined the phrase “the world is loud,” right? And I say that because there's a lot of us living a digital life. And with the digital life, it's that constant, that constant hunger, that constant pull, there's an addiction to it, you know. So when you say what concerns me, what concerns me is that the fact that we humans are naturally and chemically, you know, inclined to be addicted to something. And that addiction has alienated us from each other, from that face to face. And we're starting to tell stories. you know? We're starting to believe in the stories that we tell ourselves because of the digital life. So the stories that we tell ourselves about each other and our culture, and again, being an Afro-Latina, first of all, the Afro culture, I mean, how many stories are out there in the digital world that are true, that have become a norm, right? Because some people just don't have the…don't dare to step out of those frames of stories and go ask and go have those conversations because those perceptions have become truly ingrained, right?
47:49
[Carol Martinez] So that scares me, and I use the word scare, you know, really out loud because the world wasn't created through a digital environment. The world was created by people connecting with people, people migrating, people, you know, lending services or collecting crops and building homes and huts. There's a lot of manuality, manual things that go on into the world. And in order to regain that essence of us being a community and being included and being inclusive, we’ve got to get away from the stories that we're telling ourselves and the addiction to the little screen: swipe left, swipe right, swipe up, swipe down. We gotta get away from that. So that concerns me heavily, scares me. But then at the same time, within these factors, right, that the Surgeon General is talking about, loneliness, I feel like the solution is also being called out, right? It's going out to your local park, taking a walk, connecting, reaching out, you know and in doing so, reaching out from a human to human standpoint. We all live in neighborhoods, you know, that are surrounded by other people, right? We all get in our car and maybe sometimes you park next to somebody who has your similar car or something like that, right? So how do we really start to, again, just just finding our, I don't know, our love for each other, right? I remember growing up in the US and always hearing the word, it takes a village to raise a child. It takes a village. It takes a village, right? Coming from someone who grew up in a village, it takes a village to get ourselves away from that loneliness. So I think my call to us that love community and that are human, right, and love humanity and really care about this essence of connection and growth, we have to continue advocating about the village. We have to continue advocating for how we show up and pull each other from these moments of silence and loneliness and really be intentional about daring each other to close the screen and go outside or sit for coffee or bring a bottle of wine or share a meal or a potluck or something. What are your thoughts?
50:16
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah, for sure. I think for me, I have lots of concerns about the future of connection and belonging as it pertains to these traditions and customs. I think the biggest concern that I have is that these things will just continue to become more and more extractive. Right, like I talked a little bit at the opening of the show about how people pull out the best parts or the most desirable parts of a culture to make it mainstream and make it cool so that they can be a part of something. Not understanding the underlying pieces of why that thing exists and why it had to be to begin with. A lot of some of the things that we did, like I said, are for survival because no one else was looking out for us. So how do we ensure, as a community and as a people, that we are staying connected to one another and ensuring success for all, not just success for one? So I'm concerned that, again, these things will become more and more extractive and less about the collective and more about how does this help me to fit in and look cool and, you know, really kind of takes the meaning then away from those things. But on the flip side of that, what I am seeing is that Gen Z and generations following are coming back into things like community gardens and bartering and making clothes and doing all of these, and trading those things with one another. All of these things that like back way, way, way back then were just kind of table stakes. I remember when I was a kid, there was the neighborhood that we grew up in. There was a community garden, two streets down or two houses down from where my grandparents were staying at the time. And you would go down there and you would plant. Anybody would plant whatever they wanted to plant. And what you needed, you went and got. And there was a man who had a truck who used to come around and sell bread, sell lunch meat, sell whatever you needed, because you know maybe you couldn't get that sort of quality stuff in your neighborhood.
52:43
[Marjorie Anderson] And those things are starting to come back. People, especially I have so much hope for this younger generation are starting to go back to those sorts of customs and traditions to say, this is how we need to take care of one another, not only for a sustainable future, but for a sustainable people. We need to be able to depend on one another and come together in community to make sure we're all good; not just me, all of us are good. And so I am incredibly optimistic about what the future looks like from that standpoint. And my hope is that that never ever gets lost. I don't think that, I don't think we can survive without it.
53:30
[Carol Martinez] Yeah, yeah. and that call out for the term sustainable people, right? And again, just going back to the word migration, sustainable people is also changing, right? And the, yeah, the younger generation are looking at sustainable people as a collective instead of a singular, right? I've seen communities and, similar to what you said with the younger people that is embrace of everything and everybody, you know, and there isn't that alienation, because again, it's built around the essence of the fact that we're all people. So I, I like the idea that that is a thought because again, growing up in the Bronx in a building that was six stories, I could tell you we were all mixed, but we were one in the sense of, that building became our home, our shelter, and we looked out for it. So I didn't look at my neighbors such as, “oh, tu eres Puerto Ricaño” you know, we were all just one neighborhood from this building, 784 Fox Street, right? So I think that sustainable communities are communities that allow for that difference to also evolve in defining what community is because sometimes we can still remain as singular, but we know that that's not what the world is seeking when it comes to sustainability.
54:59
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah, for sure. Well, listen, this conversation could go on for hours and hours and hours, but no one's got time for that. But it's just really been great sitting in conversation with you, Carol. Do you have any, as you reflect on the conversation, did you have anything that you hope that people take away from this conversation?
55:21
[Carol Martinez] Yeah, my hope is that as people listen to you and I talk about, you know, reminisce and listen to our excitement and the joy and our intonation about, you know, community that they too start to join these kinds of conversations or reach out to us if they want to be a part of this conversation. But what I take away from all of it is that but we still need each other, right? We still need to be the essence and the drivers of anything and everything that is community. So people centricness. And for those that are, you know, um monetizing the term community, I'm asking every one of you to reflect on who's being impacted when you monetize the word community or when you don't put people at the center of the term and the word community, how you're creating that alienated space. So that's kind of my end reflection. What about you?
56:28
[Marjorie Anderson] Yeah, I think for me, it's really, I think, yes, please, please, please, please, at the end of the day, it's about people. And there's so much that is baked into the fabric of what community and connection and belonging actually means in society that we tend to lose sight of it because we think “Oh, this is a quick way to gain business” or you know, “this is a quick way to grow an audience,” right? Like I'm talking at people, but I'm not engaging them in anything. But underneath it all, there is so much rich history and tradition that has even made it possible for us to think about how to bring people together in this world today as we evolve, as digital capabilities evolve, as new sorts of technology is introduced. There's, at the end of the day, the heart of what makes all of this possible is baked in rich tradition and customs that we forget about because things get real flashy and money gets added to it real fast. And so I think that my hope is that as we continue to have these sorts of conversations, we're able to talk about those customs and traditions and remember to keep that at the heart of the work that we do because it's incredibly important.
57:52
[Marjorie Anderson] So, all right, well friends, that is it for us. Our pilot episode is in the books. Our goal is to bring you more conversations like the one from today to keep these incredibly important stories and traditions alive to ground us in the importance of really being intentional and caring for one another, when especially we need it now more than we ever did.
58:16
[Marjorie Anderson] So thank you for spending a little bit of time with us. It truly means the world. We'll be working on more episodes to bring you that you won't want to miss. So if you want to listen to future episodes of the podcast when they roll out, you can do so on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or at catdpodcast.com. If you've got questions about the show, you can email us at catdpodcast@gmail.com. Otherwise, thank you for sitting in conversation with us and we'll see you next time.
58:45
[Carol Martinez] Thank you, thank you. See you soon.
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